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wiranobu Village Councilman
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Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 46 Location: Indonesia
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: Kamakura kanrei in Muromachi Era? confusion |
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According to this amazing link: http://www.premodernjapanresources.com/Sengoku%20Azuchi%20Momoyama%20Era.html
In the Kantō region immediately before the outbreak of the Ōnin War, the office of the Kamakura Kubō had divided into two factions, one led by the son of Ashikaga Mochiuji, Ashikaga Shigeuji (足利成氏, 1434-1497) known as the Koga Kubō (古河公方), while the other was led by a brother of the Shōgun Yoshimasa, Ashikaga Masatomo (政知, 1435-1491) who led the Horigoe Kubō (堀越公方)...
1.Isn't Kamakura Shogunate ended in 1333 after Kenmu Restoration, how come there are still offices called Kamakura Kubo/Kanto Kubo, or even Kanto Kanrei long after that?
2.Does this mean there are 2 kanreis? Kyoto kanrei and Kanto kanrei?
thanks _________________ One man's washing machine is another man's music |
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lordameth Iki no Kami
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1597 Location: 南カリフォルニア
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:45 am Post subject: |
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There were indeed two kanrei - one in Kyoto, one in Kamakura, and this continued after the fall of the Kamakura shogunate.
Apologies for linking to Wikipedia, but this page explains the basics of the situation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanrei _________________ My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com
紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord |
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 4972 Location: Bayou Country
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Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Kamakura kanrei in Muromachi Era? confusion |
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| wiranobu wrote: |
| 1.Isn't Kamakura Shogunate ended in 1333 after Kenmu Restoration, how come there are still offices called Kamakura Kubo/Kanto Kubo, or even Kanto Kanrei long after that? |
Because the Muromachi Shogunate started in 1336? The Kamakura Shogunate was located in the Kanto--it wouldn't need a deputy to manage things in the Kanto. The Muromachi Shogunate was located in Kyoto, and therefore needed a deputy to maintain control in the Kanto.
| Quote: |
2.Does this mean there are 2 kanreis? Kyoto kanrei and Kanto kanrei?
thanks |
Yes--"Kanrei" is simply a title. Don't get too hung up on it being the same thing. The Kyoto Kanrei was the Deputy Shogun, in essence, in the Kyoto-based Muromachi bakufu. As he was located in the same place as the actual Shogun, he functioned more as a "Prime Minister" type of official. The Kanto Kanrei was in the Kanto, and acted more as an appointed governor. It wouldn't make sense to call him the "Prime Minister of the Kanto", but that's a problem of translation into English. There was also the Kyushu Tandai, which did the same thing as the Kanto Kanrei, essentially, except for Kyushu. Why was he the "Tandai" and the Kanto governor the "Kanrei" or "Kubo"? Don't know, but sounds like a linguistics major could turn that into a 250 page thesis. _________________

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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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wiranobu Village Councilman
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Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 46 Location: Indonesia
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, now it all makes more sense
Please fix this if any of my argument of my final paper is wrong
1. In late 15th to late 16th century, medieval/premodern Japan there are civil warfares between clans, called Sengoku Jidai
2. The conflicts could be dated back to Onin war (or further, but I'll stick with Onin war)
3. The leader of these samurai clans are powerful men called daimyos who led armies of thousands of poor ashigarus
4. These clans govern semi-independent, province sized "states"
5. There is however a central government led by the Ashikaga shogun in Kyoto court, but most other daimyo would rather mind their own businesses than mingle with court politics
6. In the old Kamakura/Kanto area the Ashikaga shogun still exert its power, but relegated them through close daimyos like the Uesugi clan who gets Kanto Kanrei
7. Ashikaga's policy is to juggle power between Shiba, Hosokawa, and Hatakeyama for the position of Kyoto kanrei.
8. Onin war happened because Yamana clan is jealous of Hosokawa's power and taking advantage in the middle of internal power crisis in Shiba and Hatakeyama, fearing Hosokawa will have extreme power
9. After the war local samurai rose to prominence to become sengoku daimyo, good examples are Hojo Souun, Uesugi Kenshin, and good old Oda Nobunaga
10. Portuguese came with european style firearms/guns, grabbed the attentions of power hungry sengoku daimyos
11. Ambitious Sengoku daimyos like Takeda Shingen and Oda Nobunaga used the firearms, some with poor results, some with great efficiency
12. Firearms took more and more centerstage as time progresses
13. Then came the Edo jidai and the Great Peace (sort of if the rebellions not counted as war) and firearms is reduced to less more than hunting aid
sorry if the last arguments are getting OOT _________________ One man's washing machine is another man's music |
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