The Oldest style in Kenjutsu

[1991sudarshan]

Hello,

I am new to this forums and I am interested in Kenjutsu and Battojutsu. Which is the oldest style in Kenjutsu and are there any extinct styles and styles that are not popular today ? Were there any style used in the Nara period ?[/i]

[shin no sen]

Some answers may be gained in an article I wrote some years ago. It is brief.
http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_17.htm
John
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知恵は時間及びエネルギーである

[1991sudarshan]

Thank you

[JLBadgley]

There are links out there, but briefly:

It is difficult to know what is the "oldest" form of kenjutsu. Karl Friday discusses how, in the Heian period, there appears to be an idea that one can link a particular style of swordsmanship to an individual. We know that by the 16th century we have records of various schools and techniques being passed down. And in the Edo period we really see a lot because of the documentation that legitimate schools were required to have.

Many schools make claims to vast lineages. However:

1) It is hard to prove. It is not uncommon for schools to have inflated histories that may or may not be based on fact. Many lineages have "gaps" (e.g. between a famous person of the past and the current lineage there is a point where there is a "gap" that just states "X generations..." if that).

2) Lack of records. There just aren't enough records that have survived long enough. Most of what we have are more recent copies of lineages and histories.

3) Many schools have a legendary or divine aspect to their inception story. This brings into question the authenticity of the schools' stories.

4) Schools change over time, so even if you were able to find a school that traces itself back to a given period, how do you know the techniques are the same? For instance, "jodan" used to have to be either a high hasso or canted so as to not get tangled in the helmet in some schools--at least for armored combat. In addition, in ancient times the sword of choice would have been the tachi, with the uchigatana coming in more recently, so technique likely changed. We also see a change in the form of weapons--sword blades change weight, shape, etc. throughout time, and were likely used with different strategic emphasis. Even today, things change, with different menkyo kaiden, for instance, teaching different ways of doing the same kata.

5) We have no real way to know how people moved back in the past, unless it was written down. It is rather like trying to look at linguistics, which I thought might be an interesting approach to the problem; if you could analyze enough schools' teachings over time and start to look at how things drift, combined with what documentation we have on techniques that were used, I wonder if you could start to try to find more information out about the connections and what the situation was like. I really haven't had time to put much thought into it, however.

How is that for an answer?

-Josh

[shikisoku]

Nen-ryu is believed to be the oldest existing school, started in Muromachi period.
This school do not take random students.
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[1991sudarshan]

[JLBadgley]