Question about Daimyo's income (石高) in Sengoku Jidai

[wiranobu]

Hello everyone, I am an undergraduate Japanology student currently researching about "The Effects of Firearms towards Daimyos Strategy in Sengoku Jidai" as my final paper.

My professor asked me about how can I measure how powerful are the daimyos in the 1500-1600, so I answered area conquered and income. He asked me again how can I measure their income, and I answered through their amount of estates owned and rice production in units of koku 石 (bushels). However, I haven't been able to acquire any data on rice production of daimyos prior to Tokugawa Era. If anyone of you could help provide me with the datas and statistics for reference, I would be delighted!

まことにありがとうございます

[Sakura]

On a national level, I'm pretty sure the earliest production estimates you'll find are the findings of Hideyoshi's surveys of each kuni in the 1580s and 90s. But I suspect that those figures will not be particularly useful for estimating the income of the various daimyo operating under different economic systems decades earlier.

Perhaps you could find estimates of the number of men each daimyo had under arms? That might be a better way of measuring power.

[wiranobu]

The kind of data that I wish to get is the difference between their regional power before and after what I decided to call "The Firearms Era", starting from 1542, when Portuguese sailors carrying arquebuses landed in Tanegashima.

Thanks for pointing out that I could use the number of men they have, I could use it to defend my arguments

So far I have gained several data

1. According to Poplardia Encylopedia, after Onin War, these clans are highlighted as "important", and are categorised from their background (主な大名の出身）

Shugo : Takeda, Imagawa, Rokkaku, Oouchi, Ootomo, Shimazu

Shugodai : Nagao, Asakura, Oda, Amako

Kokujin : Date, Matsudaira (Tokugawa), Azai, Mouri, Chousokabe

Others : Houjou (new Houjou in Odawara) , Saitou

2. John Whitney Hall, The Cambridge History of Japan vol 3 p.132, which highlights:

Houjou, Uesugi, and Takeda in Kantou
Shimazu and Ootomo in Kyuushuu
Chousokabe in Shikoku
Uesugi & Date in Northern Japan
Mouri in Western Japan
Asai&Asakura in Kinai
Oda & Imagawa in Toukai
Tokugawa in Kinki

3. And some maps which showed their controlled areas, which is not of much use, as large area doesn't mean large power; Oda Nobunaga had very little area, but because he's near the Kinki (Kyouto aka capital) he could gain a lot more political and economical power than the Date that controlled significant portion of northern Japan, but is isolated in a barren environment.

However it doesn't get anymore detailed than that. No numbers of koku, no numbers of men amount of power they had. So if anyone had more reference books to recommend I would gladly read it.
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[ltdomer98]

For anything prior to the Edo period, you're not going to find a list of concrete numbers. Especially prior to Hideyoshi's Taiko Kenchi (nationwide land survey). Things moved too fluidly, and the survey standards varied from domain to domain. Some daimyo taxed in rice (Kokudaka, 石高), others taxed in coins (kandaka 貫高), and the conversions of how many men each retainer was required to provide was determined by each individual daimyo.

As was pointed out, your best bet is to find estimates of total men under arms for each daimyo you are looking at. The Hojo had particularly detailed survey records that survived, along with their registers of how many men each subordinate was to provide. The Koyo Gunkan, the family history of the Takeda clan, provides numbers for each of the Takeda major subordinates, totaling around 30,000.

The Poplardia Encyclopedia you quote appears to be pretty much useless for your question--those designations are simply where each of those daimyo families originated from by class, and not a measure of relative strength.

For info on the economic basis of daimyo strength, I'd look at Hall's Government and Local Power in Japan, 500-1700 for a start.

As for your research topic, you could say I've done a little study on this myself. Here's a list of sources I'd recommend you go look at:

[wiranobu]

Thank you very much for the amazing response. This helped me a lot. I will look for those sources at the library.

And thank you for the video as well. I'm excited to be able to see other scholars doing similar research, you are definitely putting much effort in this, somehow I feel ashamed for not reading enough material.

I have in my possession an English translation of Arai Hakuseki's Tokushi Yoron, Lessons From History. Is this a good read?
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One man's washing machine is another man's music

[ltdomer98]

[wiranobu]

I see, so even data can be biased because of the political circumstances in Edo Era. That Tokushi Yoron is in fact written in Edo Jidai (1712) .

And just as you said in your video, it can be exaggerated, such as the number of arquebus ashigaru used by Oda-Tokugawa, some sources it's 3000, some say 1000

The Onin war which was written in Tokushi Yoron p255 is certainly strange, because here it's listed as Hosokawa is in command of over 160.000-odd men and Yamana 116.000 men, however from George Sansom's A History of Japan: 1334-1615 it's Hosokawa 85.000 men and Yamana 80.000 men

I would be happy to acquire more data as I read your references

I will definitely ask more I have more questions in the future if you don't mind
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One man's washing machine is another man's music

[ltdomer98]

To add another source for you to look at:

[wiranobu]

[ltdomer98]

Your school won't give you access? Odd.

Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send it to you. Click the "PM" icon at the bottom of my message.
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The Sengoku Field Manual Blog

[Sakura]

[ltdomer98]