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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: Coming To A Closeout Bin Near You. |
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http://www.amazon.com/Revenge-47-Ronin-1703-Raid/dp/1849084270/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305598553&sr=1-8
Dr T has just had it with you lot ,All this capping on the noble Asano ,Not to mention slurring the most heroic act in Samurai History and Dr T has just had enough ,And he will set the record straight! once and for all !!!!.
"Feudal Drive BY INDEED !!!!!".
(Poor ol Dr T he is hoping to flog enough copies to cash in on Keanu and his 46 Hobbits upcoming 3D opus) _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Last edited by wicked iemon on Fri May 20, 2011 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leakbrewergator Ronin
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Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 236 Location: Tampa
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't going to pre-order it, but then I read the description.
First sentence:
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| This was the raid that turned Japan upside down. |
I'm sold! Ordered 3 copies! 1 for reading, 1 for display and 1 to keep by my throne! _________________ A person who knows but a little will put on an air of knowledge. This is a matter of inexperience. When someone knows something well, it will not be seen in his manner. This person is genteel.
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
 Member for 4 years 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1400 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| after the fiercest sword battle seen in Japan for over a century |
I like this quote. Is it really a fierce sword fight if most of the defenders were unarmed servants?
This one's also classic:
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| The Shogun had now been placed in a dilemma. Should he reward the 47 Ronin for behaving more like true samurai than anyone since the time of civil wars, or should they be punished for breaking the strict laws about taking revenge? |
Behaving like "true" samurai? This Turnbull book is in the fiction section right?
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| turning them overnight into national heroes as the 'gods of bushido'. |
Really? Overnight they were turned into "Gods of bushido"? Most likely this event was completely unknown to 99% of the population of Japan.
It's a pretty good price for the book though. _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/Toshogu
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Last edited by Tornadoes28 on Wed May 18, 2011 1:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 8967 Location: Honolulu, HI
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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: 47 hobbits |
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Well you all know by now that Dr T will be playing Tsunayoshi in the new 3D version of Keanu and his 46 Hobbit's ,
As an added bonus Dr T will wear a pendant containing the musket ball that killed Takeda Shingen .
Yes i do not care about his latest Osprey Offering all 50 pages of it .I want to see Tats rip his cord jacket to shreds ,maybe even snap his spectacles !. _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music " |
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I also heard that in his role, Dr T reads from the Book of the Dead and resurrects Henrieta, who proceeds to suck Dr T's soul...and he likes it! Next, the insatiable Henrieta resurrects Oishi Kuronosuke, her favorite, Fuwa, Horibe, and even pal Miyamoto Musashi in an attempt to smite Tatsunoshi, Dr Henry Smith and Beatrice Bodart-Bailey with a furious vengeance. Newcomer Andrew Rankin, with Thomas Conlan stand in the way of this demonic force in what is being called this summer's Clash of the Chushingura Titans. _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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Tatsunoshi Miko no Kami
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Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 4611 Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
| I also heard that in his role, Dr T reads from the Book of the Dead and resurrects Henrieta, who proceeds to suck Dr T's soul...and he likes it! Next, the insatiable Henrieta resurrects Oishi Kuronosuke, her favorite, Fuwa, Horibe, and even pal Miyamoto Musashi in an attempt to smite Tatsunoshi, Dr Henry Smith and Beatrice Bodart-Bailey with a furious vengeance. Newcomer Andrew Rankin, with Thomas Conlan stand in the way of this demonic force in what is being called this summer's Clash of the Chushingura Titans. |
13 Assassins be damned! I’ll be camped out at the local theater with my bucket of popcorn waiting for this. I just hope Henrietta doesn’t skeer me too bad. |
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Tatsunoshi Miko no Kami
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Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 4611 Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:21 am Post subject: Re: 47 hobbits |
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Well, I’m already gathering firewood to stack around Turnbull’s rustic hut in preparation for the roast. You’re all invited! But to be fair, I think there’s a good chance he might deliver something worthwhile. Turnbull’s demonstrated the last couple of years he’s willing to look at the newest scholarship and incorporate it into his books even when it’s at odds with what he’s written before (even if sometimes he picks the wrong newest scholarship to buy into, like he did with Kenneth Swope, resulting in the laughable ‘Samurai Invasion of Korea’ Osprey book). Japanese scholarship since about 1995 has brought the Ronin legend back to historical fact and excised the Edo period kabuki/puppet play BS, and it’s finally begun to filter into Western scholarship with Smith, Bodart-Bailey, Rankin, etc. Turnbull’s had to have seen it-I think it really just boils down to whether he wants to alienate his Osprey audience, most of whom have a pretty casual interest in Japanese history and want to buy into the whole Bushido thing. They weren’t very happy with him when he did his 360 in ‘Samurai Invasion of Korea’. Turnbull’s biggest problem is that while he can research and present the stuff uncovered by other authors (bordering on plagiarism at times) in a very readable and entertaining manner, he rarely takes a critical look at anything. You’d be hard pressed to see any real analysis of evidence or an original theory in any of his work.
I have to admit, though, the advertising copy for the book doesn’t fill me with much hope. It pretty much seems to go with the standard Edo period fiction. Besides the fact that I’m not sure you can call an ambush with one side doing all the killing a ‘swordfight’ (much like you can’t call Honno-ji a battle), Turnbull seems not to realize that most (probably all) of the Ronin used spears during the raid (as evidenced by their own accounts written afterwards while in captivity). How can it be a swordfight when everyone’s using spears? Not to mention that he’s ignoring small conflicts like Osaka Winter, Osaka Summer, the Shimabara Rebellion, the Satsuma conquest of Okinawa, the riots in northeast Japan after Sekigahara, civil unrest in Tosa province, etc etc etc, that happened in those hundred years prior to the Ronin’s raid-I’d say any of them were a tad ‘bigger’ than that. And ‘turning Japan on its head’? Nobody really gave a rat’s ass except that it gave the commoners a bunch of new entertaining plays to check out. As far as politics and the economy, it was business as usual.
Bottom line-if he sticks with the Edo period legend/Bushido crap, I’ll descend on him with all the wrath I can muster. There WILL be brimstone. There WILL be snake handling. There WILL be damnation! (because I'm the Loooooorrrrdddd of the Harvest, just like Dennis Hopper in TCM2). If he goes the extra mile, does his research, and produces something worthwhile, I’ll give him the praise it merits. If nothing else, it’ll have pretty pictures.
| wicked iemon wrote: |
| I want to see Tats rip his cord jacket to shreds ,maybe even snap his spectacles !. |
Awww….even I wouldn’t do that to poor ol’ Dr. T. For all his faults, I still give the guy credit for helping to bring Japanese history to the masses, and I really enjoyed reading his books when I first started delving into J-history. I still like reading them just for the stories. There just comes a time when you begin to spot the shortcomings in his work and it’s time to move on to better stuff. But I still find myself reading all his new books…after all, he is a ‘wuuurlldddd famous British sammyrai ‘istory aw-thor’…
Speaking of which, Domer and Kitsuno, when you do the ‘Samurai Behaving Badly’ podcast, you HAVE to include the Susukida Kansuke incident (described by McBurly in THIS thread). Yeah, it really happened. |
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:41 am Post subject: Re: 47 hobbits |
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| Tatsunoshi wrote: |
Speaking of which, Domer and Kitsuno, when you do the ‘Samurai Behaving Badly’ podcast, you HAVE to include the Susukida Kansuke incident (described by McBurly in THIS thread). Yeah, it really happened. |
Or the Me-gumi firefighters brawl with the samurai/sumo at Shiba Daimyojin. That also really happened and almost got out of control, with the commoners supporting the Me-gumi against the arrogant sumo and samurai. Or the 1650s brawls between hatamoto yakkoand otokodate, basically a commoner yakko that led to the death of Banzuiin Chōbei, leader of the Roppō-gumi, at the hands of Mizuno Jūrozaemon, a bad-ass hatamoto. _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: Samurai Behaving Badly |
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Samurai Behaving Badly.
Hidetsugu
Kai Harada
Tokugawa Tadanaga
Oh well that's 3 ,could add the Hosokawa Succession disputes . _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music " |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 8967 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hidetsugu will be in there, but so will Hideyoshi for his conduct in the Hidetsugu matter. Araki Murashige is another honor disaster that will be addressed. He decided to flee rather than surrender and committ seppuku, which resulted in the deaths of a ridiculous number of people at the end of Nobunaga's executioner's swords. And he didn't even flee to 'fight another day', he just ran away. In point of fact by any standards the most ardent modern sammyrai wannabe could set, his wife died a far more honorable and dignified death, even in the face of a cowardly husband. Good stuff! _________________ Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 4963 Location: Bayou Country
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kitsuno wrote: |
| Hidetsugu will be in there, but so will Hideyoshi for his conduct in the Hidetsugu matter. Araki Murashige is another honor disaster that will be addressed. He decided to flee rather than surrender and committ seppuku, which resulted in the deaths of a ridiculous number of people at the end of Nobunaga's executioner's swords. And he didn't even flee to 'fight another day', he just ran away. In point of fact by any standards the most ardent modern sammyrai wannabe could set, his wife died a far more honorable and dignified death, even in the face of a cowardly husband. Good stuff! |
Also worth noting is Yamanaka Shikanosuke, who by most accounts did everything the stereotypical "right way", only to get crapped on by his Amako masters and eventually turn against them. _________________

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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kitsuno wrote: |
| Hidetsugu will be in there, but so will Hideyoshi for his conduct in the Hidetsugu matter. Araki Murashige is another honor disaster that will be addressed. He decided to flee rather than surrender and committ seppuku, which resulted in the deaths of a ridiculous number of people at the end of Nobunaga's executioner's swords. And he didn't even flee to 'fight another day', he just ran away. In point of fact by any standards the most ardent modern sammyrai wannabe could set, his wife died a far more honorable and dignified death, even in the face of a cowardly husband. Good stuff! |
Glad to see all this-- BUT if you really want to shake a stick at the bushido myth and tie it into the bad sammyrai thing, you should focus on some of the Edo period bad boys and incidents that were mentioned, as after all, bushido was more or less an Edo period invention that got codified by Nitobe in the Meiji period. I am sure the member of the podcast team who is the Edo expert can milk some info out of resources about these people/topics at the U of H library.
And as for Hidetsugu,
He says he wasn't any worse than any of the stars in the "Sengoku Bushi Girls Gone Wild" series of DVDs. If you do say so, you'd better show the proof that he was as bad as his dear uncle/adopted father says. He says all charges of him being excessive (and became a part of the historical record) were trumped up as an excuse to get him out of the way for little Hideyori.
So if you do talk smack with no proof, he'll be-itch slap you with the piece of wood in his hand.
The thing with Hidetsugu is really how much was true, how much was fabricated? Does anyone really know for sure? _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 8967 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well as far as the fanboys know, Bushido was around forever. Anyway, it isn't so much "Bushido didn't exist", I want to focus on the "Bad Boys of the ...." shoot, can't think of a snappy title, but the guys who were the total opposite of what bushido stood for. I don't want to do "Bushido is bull because..." I don't like that line of discussion. Our "edo expert" is going to be hanging out at the Smithsonian over the summer, so it will be the guy who hates the Edo period, the guy who thinks the Edo period is too modern, and the guy who doesn't care about it. But I'll see what I can dig up. The "Bushido Myth" conversation has a place of course, but I don't want that to be the heart of the podcast. _________________ Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 8967 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
He says he wasn't any worse than any of the stars in the "Sengoku Bushi Girls Gone Wild" series of DVDs. If you do say so, you'd better show the proof that he was as bad as his dear uncle/adopted father says. He says all charges of him being excessive (and became a part of the historical record) were trumped up as an excuse to get him out of the way for little Hideyori.
So if you do talk smack with no proof, he'll be-itch slap you with the piece of wood in his hand.
The thing with Hidetsugu is really how much was true, how much was fabricated? Does anyone really know for sure? |
Exactly, you're stepping on my podcast, which is why I specifically mentioned Hideyoshi instead I'm way ahead of you. _________________ Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| kitsuno wrote: |
| Well as far as the fanboys know, Bushido was around forever. |
And as every pop historian author of the sammyrai knows, you can't convince them otherwise. So you may as well join them and give 'em what the want and throw in some ninjers for bonus points!
And maybe from that previous post where I mentioned some bad Edo period sammyrai shenanigans, your Edo expert may have learned something he doesn't know and will maybe will want to research these things in more detail. I shall wait with baited breath for his return from the Smithsonian to see! _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 4963 Location: Bayou Country
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
BUT if you really want to shake a stick at the bushido myth and tie it into the bad sammyrai thing, you should focus on some of the Edo period bad boys and incidents that were mentioned, as after all, bushido was more or less an Edo period invention that got codified by Nitobe in the Meiji period. I am sure the member of the podcast team who is the Edo expert can milk some info out of resources about these people/topics at the U of H library.
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E-do.....Pe-ri-od?
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The Sengoku Field Manual Blog |
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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: Samurai Behaving Badly |
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Hanzo Hattori The Second who was such a sloth and just uninterested in his duties his poor Iga clansmen had to storm a temple to try and get him the sack .
Also even before or around the same time as the Date Dispute we have the Kuroda and Maeda families both got into deep doo doo due to evil councilors.
Maybe that ill fated attempt to restore the Oda that never made it out the front door during the reign of our ol bud the bed wetting Shogun . _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music " |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


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lordameth Iki no Kami
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Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I'll see what I might happen to come across, but as my summer reading list consists primarily of books on Yoshiwara and Kabuki, don't hold your breath  _________________ My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com
紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord |
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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: 47 Ronin |
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Back to Dr T, I think he will stick to the reel version of events .
I just do not see Dr T as one to upset the apple cart ,Besides there is an upcoming film that both he and Osprey would like to latch on to.
Of course the good Doctor could find himself hosting a History Channel Doc on Bushido or something similar so he will tread the familiar path on this .
Beat me with a soggy noodle if i am wrong .
Funny i always thought the events that rocked Japan were Famine ,Floods ,Bad Harvests and the odd Earthquake ,Did not think the 47 could top those . _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Last edited by wicked iemon on Wed May 25, 2011 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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shin no sen Karou
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I see you have altered your nom de plume to iemon after the Incident of the Capitals It now looks like 伊右衛門 Sly fox. Ha!! John _________________ 知恵は時間及びエネルギーである |
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wicked iemon The Lemon King
 Kashin
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 900 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: lemon |
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Yes originally i took the name from Iemon of Yotsuya fame ,But it became mistaken for Lemon which kinda suited the acidic comments towards certain films .
Anyway either way is fine . _________________ "One mans washing machine is another mans music " |
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