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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Shisendo wrote: |
| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
All,
The US$23 paperback version of Tour of Duty is now available. Just one hitch-- it isn't showing up on Amazon.com. Professor Vaporis is trying to get this corrected and once this issue addressed, Kitsuno will add it to the SA's Amazon store. Please consider buying it through the SA, as 4% of whatever is sold there goes for paying for this site's maintenance and upkeep.
For those of you who just gotta have this "gotta have" book now, you can order it through the University of Hawaii Press's website here. |
I was wondering what had happened when I searched for it yesterday. I even went to the UH blog to discover it had been out since November. A rare unlisted book for Amazon. |
I finally received my copy of the paperback this week. Even that was an ordeal since my first order was returned when UPS couldn't find my house! Anyway, I've dived right in and am enjoying the book. Hopefully I'll have something to add to the discussion when finished. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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vaporis Peasant
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 12
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: Tour of Duty |
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Greetings. I am not sure that there is a problem with the availability of Tour of Duty. I typed "Tour of Duty Vaporis" in the search box and the paperback edition came right up, with several new and several used copies for sale.
Best regards,
Constantine Vaporis |
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tour of Duty |
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| vaporis wrote: |
Greetings. I am not sure that there is a problem with the availability of Tour of Duty. I typed "Tour of Duty Vaporis" in the search box and the paperback edition came right up, with several new and several used copies for sale.
Best regards,
Constantine Vaporis |
I'm not sure when it became available, but I know that for quite a few months after the December 2009 posts I kept my eye out for your book but couldn't find it on Amazon or any of my other usual on-line sources. I must admit that I gave up for a couple months so I don't know when it became available again. When I saw this thread hadn't been active for a while, I wanted to make sure everyone knew there was a ready supply. Good to know you're still participating on the site in case I have any questions after reading! _________________ Over a Hedge |
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lordameth Iki no Kami
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1596 Location: 南カリフォルニア
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I can't seem to find the review that I thought I had written, but I just wanted to pop by and mention that I did finally end up reading Tour of Duty over the summer, and found it a fascinating and excellent read.
It is wonderful to find a book so rich in information, one which can truly serve as a go-to source for information about sankin kôtai, and not just about one scholar's arguments about or interpretations of the topic.
Vaporis covers not just the processions themselves, or the political ramifications and impacts of the sankin kotai system, but goes into wonderfully vivid detail about planning and preparation, life in the Edo mansions, and many other aspects of the missions.
Tour of Duty has become one of my top books on Edo period history, and I cannot recommend it enough. Thanks again to those who recommended it a year ago (i.e. earlier in this thread). _________________ My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com
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vaporis Peasant
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 12
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: Thank you |
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| Thank you Shisendo and Lordameth. |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1400 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I have wanted to read this but unfortunately due to my budgetary situation have not been justified in purchasing it and it was not carried by the Los Angeles Public Library. However it now is carried at the library so I will add this to my list to be read next. I look forward to it based on the above reviews. _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Really enjoyed Tour of Duty. It shared some nice myth busting research, e.g. about how much more meat was a part of Edo period diets than is generally believed. I also liked the look into quotidian life of the samurai. I noted a few questions while reading. If any members can address them, please do.
1) On page 73, it was noted that a piece of metal was placed under a travelling daimyo's futon. I'm assuming this was done to protect against a spear attack through the floor if sleeping on the second floor or a sword if someone snuck into the crawl space under the first floor. I can't decide if this was overly cautious, a holdover from the Sengoku period where an assassination like this was attempted, or a symbolic gesture to show the daimyo just how much his retainers were concerned about his safety. At any rate, this practice raised two questions for me:
a. Was it also customary to take a precaution like this at the home castle?
b. Is there any record of an assassination attempt on a daimyo while travelling to or from Edo for alternate attendance?
2) One of the major points made early in the book is how expensive was the journey to and from Edo. Were the daimyo in neighbouring provinces like Shimosa envied for their money saving proximity or did they have to make up for their good fortune with extra spending on security in Edo or gifts to the Shogun?
3) I'm curious to learn more about the forced loan system mentioned on page 113. Were these loans ever paid back by the domain to its retainers or was it simply a tax by another name?
4) More an observation than a question, but it's interesting to note on page 119 how impoverished samurai would move out of the castle city to rural areas to save money on expenses. It sounds almost like an early equivalent of the suburbs.
5) The section on page 152-154 describes the extensive network of underground chambers that have been excavated on the sites of the former compounds. Many of them contained garbage like discarded bottles and chopsticks. Vaporis raises the question about the recycling to garbage ratio in Edo. There seems to be enough evidence to show that claims from a link discussed elsewhere on the forum http://forums.samurai-archives.com/viewtopic.php?t=4362 that suggest “there was pretty much no garbage in Japan’s Edo Period because almost everything got recycled” are a tad optimistic. Either way, you still might enjoy this link to a free translation of Eisuke Ishikawa's Japan in the Edo Period - An Ecologically-Conscious Society http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/009397.html
6) On page 198, curfews of 6 and 8 o'clock for retainers of varying ranks is mentioned, and yet many were great fans of performances of such arts as bunraku (199). Does this help explain the tradition of afternoon performance times for kabuki that continues to this day?
7) On page 207, a retainer describes a side trip to Konpira-san to see temple treasures displayed “once every thousand years.” I've read about a few other temple exhibitions of this type in our time that are described as “once every hundred years” or “once every thousand years.” It makes me wonder, is this true, or is this just a generally accepted hyperbole to get visitors out to see treasures that are hauled out every few years or so.
There. I realize that's a lot of questions, but if even one or two more extend the discussion of this book, it's worth it. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 8967 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: |
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For #2, an assumption off the top of my head is that they were the more trusted families/clans anyway, so the "burden" didn't need to be as hefty as on the Tozama Daimyo.
For #7, it must be hyperbole - I don't think during the Edo period 1000 years would have allowed for more than a single showing of anything - a track record of one time is hardly a track record  _________________ Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j
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vaporis Peasant
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I'll try to tackle a few here.
The paybacks (honorable loans) were never paid back and the amount could vary from 10-50% from year to year.
The tozama lords were "taxed" considerably more since they had to come from further away than the fudai daimyo.
Yes, the 1000 or 10,000 was hyperbole; they just meant "many"
Kabuki wasn't meant for samurai so I doubt the afternoon performance time had anything to do with curfews.
Not sure how widely practiced the sheet of metal under the futon was, even in early Tokugawa. Seems like a sengoku holdover.
No record of an assassination attempt on a daimyo on the road, at least none that I have heard of. There were occasional conflicts between daimyo. See Beatrice Bodart Bailey, The Dog Shogun, p. 81, for an account of a fight between two at Zojoji temple in Edo.
Sorry for the short answers--many papers to grade! Thanks for your interest.
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time out to answer. I know how all consuming marking can become when buried under a pile of work. Can't repeat enough how fortunate we are to have access to the author here. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I just finished reading this book and found it very interesting. I particularly liked the information that detailed the everyday simple aspects of life related to Sankin Kotai. For example, on page 156, the domain regulations regarding the exterior of the compounds. There were regulations prohibiting retainers from exposing "unsightly" things to the outside world such as hanging laundry (such a common thing in modern-day Japan), buying merchandise through the outer windows, throwing water out of the windows, or making loud music. I generally had the impression of domains and the control of their retainers as being strict and offenders severely punished and yet the book revealed that enforcing these simple regulations at the domain compounds were often difficult.
It was also interesting to learn how much free time the retainers on Sankin Kotai duty actually had while in Edo. I knew that retainers in general had a fair amount of free time, even in the domains, but the book revealed that many retainers only worked a handful of days per month and often for only a few hours per day. Also, I was very surprised that certain retainers also had the privilege to leave the procession to sightsee when they were not on duty.
Page 200 gives a great example of the free time activities of the retainers. Wakayama retainer Sakai Banshiro kept a diary of his activities. Banshiro's duties were light, no more than half a day about every 3rd day. This left him with plenty of time for eating out, drinking at the barracks and in town, sightseeing, going to public baths, and taking music lessons. Banshiro often ate inexpensive meals of soba in conjunction with sake, sushi, or nabe. Sometimes he enjoyed boar or pig. His days often ended with shopping or going to shrines and temples as well as visiting famous tourist stops. Banshiro visited Sengakuji, the final resting place of the 47 Ronin which was a popular destination for retainers on duty in Edo. In the pleasure quarters, Banshiro and his friends viewed a procession of courtesans and in the Ryogoku area, they saw various freak shows, young women's sumo (Tokugawa version of female mud wrestling), and several sex shows.
Women's sumo and sex shows? That I never expected.
In spite of all this leisure time and activities, apparently retainers often would volunteer for Sankin Kotai duty for the extra stipends which helped them in times of financial difficulty. Therefore many retainers were still able to return home with extra money above their regular stipend.
If you are interested in the Edo period and specifically the aspects of Sankin Kotai, this is an excellent book and I highly recommend it. _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
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onnamusha Archer
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:27 am Post subject: |
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This is one of my bedside books, although I haven't opened it in awhile. The part that always sticks with me is the elucidation of what they used to call "samurai economics" with the example of Tani Tannai, who just couldn't seem to balance his budget! That poor fellow would have a heck of a time if he had a modern credit card, and yet, his situation somehow reminds me of just that.
Tornadoes, your example points out one real-life problem with using sankin-kotai duty to make extra money to support the family back in the domain--all those distractions! I imagine many of those samurai piddled away their extra funds taking in those vaunted sights of Edo and points along the way. This also explains in a concrete way why the townsman economy of Edo would've gone in the toilet when sankin-kotai was pretty much done away with in 1862. Those bored samurai probably were a fair customer base!
Just an offhand question: I wonder if Tani Tannai was an ancestor of the Bakumatsu and Meiji period soldier and statesman Tani Kanjo(Tani Tateki)? _________________ "It is largely left to her (Nature) own natural bodily perfection, and she has no special need to resort to artificial coloring and powdering to look beautiful." -Takeda Shingen's "death poem," borrowed from Zen literature.
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
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You bring up a very good point Onnamusha that I also was thinking of when reading the book about some samurai using sankin kotai duty to supplement their income. But as the book reveals, many samurai spent much of their income while in Edo. My guess is it depended on the individual. Some samurai were able to restrain themselves to a certain degree and return with extra money. I am curious what the "average" samurai spent while in Edo and what percentage of their Edo stipend they spent before returning home to their domain. Did the majority of samurai spend most or all of their Edo stipend on sightseeing, shopping, eating, and other entertainment?
Tani Tannai's story was very interesting. It reminded me of people with credit problems today, specifically in the United States. Such a common problem of people spending beyond their means and making excuses as to why they are in debt. To me Tannai had many excuses for his fiscal problems. _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
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Owarikenshi Ronin
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Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Another question might be to what extent the townsmen of Edo, particularly the proprietors of inns, purposely padded the bill depending on the reputed wealth of their patrons; imagine the temptation to jack up prices the minute Lord Maeda's entourage hailed in sight!
The $8.00 beer in New York City comes to mind . . .
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Bethetsu Izu no Kami
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The book refers to the view of Edo from Mt. Atago as being famous. I could not find Mt. Atago on maps. It seems to have been practically in the city. Does anyone know where it is? |
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OishiYoshio Inkeeper
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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This sounds like a must-read book. Only just noticed this thread... oops.
Some boxes that I have collected over the years have elaborate iron or brass fittings for poles to slide through. The covers for swords and guns that I have were also probably used on the sankin-kotai journey.
If anyone is visiting Yakage in Okayama to see the Daimyo Gyoretsu, please visit the Honjin Inn which is preserved almost exactly as it was when the Daimyo stopped there. Much of the original equipment is still fitted in the kitchens, storerooms etc. On one mud wall is even an original list of all the Daimyo trains and the dates as they came through and stopped there. |
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bethetsu wrote: |
| The book refers to the view of Edo from Mt. Atago as being famous. I could not find Mt. Atago on maps. It seems to have been practically in the city. Does anyone know where it is? |
I Googled 'Mt. Atago Edo' when you posted your question, but didn't have time to share some of the info I found. Here's a link to the Brooklyn Museum that explains that Mt. Atago is located in the Shiba district, SW of Edo. It also shows a nice ukiyo-e showing the view from there.
http://tinyurl.com/2wpjrqs
I uncovered a flickr photo that claims to be taken from the site where the ukiyo-e was drawn. Makes for a nice "after" photo.
http://tinyurl.com/36xqgtf
Looks like Atagoyama is just north of present day Tokyo Tower. Hope this helps.
http://tinyurl.com/33rjuol _________________ Over a Hedge |
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Bethetsu Izu no Kami
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Bethetsu: Where is Mt. Atago?
Thank you. It is near Tora-no-Mon. I will try finding it the next time I am in the area. With all the buildup it is impossible to get a feeling for the topography. |
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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It's a just a big hill--the "mount" is a misnomer. The shrine at the top is quite famous and worth a visit. It is also where the conspirators who assassinated Ii Naosuke gathered before they carried out the deed. Also next to the shrine is NHK's museum. _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm impressed the hill is still there. The usual fate of hills in Edo was to level them and put the fill into the bay for land reclamation wasn't it? Perhaps the existence of the shrine saved it from this fate. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Shisendo wrote: |
| I'm impressed the hill is still there. The usual fate of hills in Edo was to level them and put the fill into the bay for land reclamation wasn't it? Perhaps the existence of the shrine saved it from this fate. |
That's what I thought too. Has the shrine been there since the Edo period or is it post WWII? I wonder if the hill was higher during the Edo period and has been reduced since then by development? _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Shisendo wrote: |
| I'm impressed the hill is still there. The usual fate of hills in Edo was to level them and put the fill into the bay for land reclamation wasn't it? Perhaps the existence of the shrine saved it from this fate. |
One important fact that needs to also be mentioned is that the Atago "hill" in Tokyo is named after the real Mount Atago near Kyoto. The one in Tokyo is a mere microcosm of sorts. Shisendo- in terms of your statement, are you thinking of the hills that were leveled out of a need to build the 11 Odaiba in Edo/Tokyo Bay? That was done in the 1853 in reaction to Perry's visit. Egawa Hidetatsu oversaw their construction under orders from the Shogunate. Perhaps the most famous hill to be leveled in order to provide landfill for the Odaiba construction was Gotenyama, in Shinagawa. Gotenyama is today where Sony's HQ is, but back in the Edo Period, was famous for its magnificent cherry trees and was a favorite sakura viewing spot for the elite and commoners alike. You can see what those odaiba structures look like by clicking here. http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=29656795%40N06&q=Odaiba&m=text
| Tornadoes28 wrote: |
| Has the shrine been there since the Edo period or is it post WWII? I wonder if the hill was higher during the Edo period and has been reduced since then by development? |
Your first question is perhaps one of your more brilliant ones, Tornadoes!! I'm impressed that you never fail to let me down! Maybe you can Google the forum site or the internet to see if Ii Naosuke was assassinated during the Edo period or in the Showa period. And no, the hill isn't any shorter today than it was during the Edo period--at least not from man-made activities. To learn more about Atago Shrine and see what it looks like, click below. The set also contains shots of Seishō-ji Temple, at the base of the hill. Just FYI-- nowadays, Mount Atago and the surrounding area are called the more 'posh' sounding 'Atago Hills'.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=29656795%40N06&q=Atago&m=text _________________
Heee heee! Shita iro! Shita iro! Here comes his lordship, Baka Tono!
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
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Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 304 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
| are you thinking of the hills that were leveled out of a need to build the 11 Odaiba in Edo/Tokyo Bay? |
Obenjo, I didn't have a specific event in mind like the Odaiba project, but do appreciate the details and photos you provided to add to my knowledge base. As an aside, the cormorant vs. eel photos on the same page you linked to were also quite interesting. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1400 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
| Shisendo wrote: |
| I'm impressed the hill is still there. The usual fate of hills in Edo was to level them and put the fill into the bay for land reclamation wasn't it? Perhaps the existence of the shrine saved it from this fate. |
One important fact that needs to also be mentioned is that the Atago "hill" in Tokyo is named after the real Mount Atago near Kyoto. The one in Tokyo is a mere microcosm of sorts. Shisendo- in terms of your statement, are you thinking of the hills that were leveled out of a need to build the 11 Odaiba in Edo/Tokyo Bay? That was done in the 1853 in reaction to Perry's visit. Egawa Hidetatsu oversaw their construction under orders from the Shogunate. Perhaps the most famous hill to be leveled in order to provide landfill for the Odaiba construction was Gotenyama, in Shinagawa. Gotenyama is today where Sony's HQ is, but back in the Edo Period, was famous for its magnificent cherry trees and was a favorite sakura viewing spot for the elite and commoners alike. You can see what those odaiba structures look like by clicking here. http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=29656795%40N06&q=Odaiba&m=text
| Tornadoes28 wrote: |
| Has the shrine been there since the Edo period or is it post WWII? I wonder if the hill was higher during the Edo period and has been reduced since then by development? |
Your first question is perhaps one of your more brilliant ones, Tornadoes!! I'm impressed that you never fail to let me down! Maybe you can Google the forum site or the internet to see if Ii Naosuke was assassinated during the Edo period or in the Showa period. And no, the hill isn't any shorter today than it was during the Edo period--at least not from man-made activities. To learn more about Atago Shrine and see what it looks like, click below. The set also contains shots of Seishō-ji Temple, at the base of the hill. Just FYI-- nowadays, Mount Atago and the surrounding area are called the more 'posh' sounding 'Atago Hills'.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=29656795%40N06&q=Atago&m=text |
Oops. That's what happens when I'm doing other things and scanning the posts too quickly. Thanks for pointing out my stupid mistake in such a low key way Obenjo. Anyway Obenjo, you know that I know this time period and Ii Naosuke fairly well. I was reading while being distracted by other things which I shouldn't do. I shouldn't post comments if I can't devote my attention to the topic. _________________ http://toshogu.blogspot.com
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Obenjo Kusanosuke Suo no Kami
 Forum Kanrei
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4503 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Shisendo wrote: |
| Obenjo, I didn't have a specific event in mind like the Odaiba project, but do appreciate the details and photos you provided to add to my knowledge base. As an aside, the cormorant vs. eel photos on the same page you linked to were also quite interesting. |
Thanks! Glad to be of help and thanks for the feedback on the photos. The "War/Victory at Sea" saga was really something to see.
| Tornadoes28 wrote: |
| Oops. That's what happens when I'm doing other things and scanning the posts too quickly. Thanks for pointing out my stupid mistake in such a low key way Obenjo. Anyway Obenjo, you know that I know this time period and Ii Naosuke fairly well. I was reading while being distracted by other things which I shouldn't do. I shouldn't post comments if I can't devote my attention to the topic. |
Always a pleasure.  _________________
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