Mirrors

[Ashigaru]

This is a noobish question. I think I know the answer, and am probably just over-thinking things, but

In ancient Japan (circa Yamatai-koku) bronze mirrors seemed to have been passed out as sort of a symbol of office. One side is generally ornately decorated (zodiac creatures or nature themes), while the other is smooth and flat.

In museums they only show what would appear to be the back of the mirror, and in the rare event that you can peek around the side and glimpse the smooth side it is generally not as polished as it would have to be to get a reasonably clear reflection (perhaps to preserve the relic and because it is no longer needed for its original use).

Were these objects mirrors in the modern sense of the world (i.e., reflecting devices), or are they simply called "mirrors" because of their mirror-like disc shape? I suspect they were real mirrors, but the chance that the name was some kind of archaelogical jargon has nagged at me a bit.
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[heron]

I don't know specifically about these ancient mirrors but here's some general information. (which you probably know already!) Because the material used for mirrors was usually bronze, there were various drawbacks to the traditional East Asian mirror which had been in existence since ancient times and was used as a reflective device, but also in many rituals. Mainly, bronze tarnishes very quickly and needs to be polished frequently. Therefore it was usually kept covered and only brought out when needed, unlike the glass/mercury European mirror which was used as decoration in a room not just for looking at one's face in at a specific time (and enabled people to catch a glimpse of themselves almost unaware). Also bronze gives a brownish tinge to the reflection, and the fact that the customary shape was round (I guess for ease of polishing as much as anything else) meant only a small part of the person could be seen. I think all of this means that the object itself became highly prized and sacred.

Timon Screech has some very interesting observations in The Lens Within the Heart, ( http://tinyurl.com/5zh77o ) which is where most of this information comes from.

[JLBadgley]

I think Heron has a good point. I'd always considered that bronze mirrors were actually used for that purpose, to some extent, but had often wondered how well they worked. On the other hand, their size may have had more to do with their use--I imagine it is easier to have a small, thick piece of bronze that can be picked up and moved than a larger piece. The larger it gets the more distortion I imagine you'd have to deal with, too.

I think I've seen depictions of mirrors used to reflect light, too--and the mirror stands are about the same height as the lamps, iirc. That might be another use.

When they became a status item, though, I imagine they were kept more for that purpose than for anything else.

All that said, I don't know of any museum that has tried to polish the face of one of these mirrors for display, at least not off the top of my head.

-Josh

[Ashigaru]

[shin no sen]

I'd just like to add that bronze mirrors were developed in just about every culture that had reached bronze age level metallurgy. In fact some bronze mirrors from the near east pre date Chinese examples by aprox. 3/4 of a millenium. Only the well to do could afford them and were thus a status symbol and in the east becoming a sacred article. Not without similar attribution in the west, as well. How many references are there to mirrors in mythological accounts or fairy tales? The reflected image has always had a fascination for us. John
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[heron]

[nagaeyari]

My archaeology prof in Japan mentioned that the ornately-decorated backs of most mirrors were worn down. He proposes that shamans and leaders wore them around their necks, and the friction and rubbing would wear down the decorated side.

Reflecting light--the object of worship in ancient Japan--would then play a big part in their ceremonies.

[JLBadgley]

I'd be interested to hear more on this--what evidence of wear is he suggesting? Most of the ones I've seen seem in fairly decent condition, outside of the basic oxidization and age. Considering how they look next to replicas, I'm not sure how much more detail would be expected.

-Josh

[shin no sen]

The oldest mirror I have is Momoyama period, no wear. The older ones that I've seen in museums show little wear. The thing that would be counter-intuitive to me would be the size and weight about one's neck. I have no problem visualising a medallion sized mirror as religious paraphenalia for a Shinto priest/ess however.
http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_12.htm
Top of page. John
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[nagaeyari]

I might as well throw out the fact that he's an active archaeologist in the field specializing in Yayoi/Kofun.

Most mirrors were NOT the large ones that are usually pictured in books. Most mirrors were a little smaller than the size of a dinner plate.

You guys know the trend of weapons and bells (doutaku) becoming larger and starting to be made in bronze, right? That ritualization process (and de-functionalizaton process) is responsible for museum pieces in excellent condition.

Anyway, I don't have his books here in America, so I can't give you an exact page number. Give me a few days to get in touch with him by email and see what I can dig up.

[shin no sen]

Hi nagaeyari, I know the mirrors are about the size of dessert plates. The one pictured is about 12 cm dia. I have an Edo period one of 22 cm and heavier. Even the small one would be uncomfortable in a short while hung about ones neck. There are pictures of shaman of the Amerinds and Borneo tribesmen wearing mirrors, so it isn't without possibility. They are synonomous with Amaterasu and thereby a powerful symbol. I hope you get some further info from this archeologist. I would love to hear how he came to this conclusion. John
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[nagaeyari]

I just sent an email out.

[lordameth]

I would imagine that, as with most objects, there are examples in better condition, and those in worse condition.

Perhaps the ones we often see on display in museums were made fresh and immediately buried in kofun, or otherwise protected from the ravages of wear and age, while others might have been worn and used.

Remember that museums generally don't have the space to put more than 5-10% of the collection on display, and that just because something's not on display doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that scholars wouldn't have access to it. Perhaps this expert is referring to those he's seen in back rooms and storage spaces.
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紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord

[JLBadgley]

I'm not so much doubting as wondering what the evidence is.

I'm familiar with the small mirrors found in China, Korea, and Japan. As I recall, the early ones made in Japan appear to be rather crude, with less detail--are those the ones he is referring to, or all types of the smaller mirrors? From the ones I'd seen I had just figured that the technology in Japan still hadn't quite reached the level in other places.

I'd also be interested in if he's compared the wear on Japanese mirrors to those in China and Korea, and whether the patterns are similar. If the wear pattern is only found in Japan, it definitely supports the idea that something was going on. Otherwise, we'd have to look at those other cultures, too, for further assistance in explaining it, I would think.

I wasn't aware of an actual trend of the bronze items getting bigger over time, but it doesn't surprise me. I assume that a lot of the grave items later may have been made for the purpose of displaying wealth (look at how much metal I can waste on this--and look at how much we can just toss away with him/her). Of course, they might have cloaked it under different reasoning. At the same time, many Heian and later mirrors seem to be the larger, "dish plate" size and are placed on stands specifically for that purpose. Would that, to you, indicate that the mirrors had grown in size for ritual purposes and were then used as practical household items, or perhaps the way in which mirrors were used changed, thus bringing about larger mirrors?


-Josh

[shin no sen]

Here is a pic of my other mirror just for interest. It was cast with a handle whereas the older example had a hole for cordage in the boss. John

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[Matsuhide]

[nagaeyari]

Great information, Matsuhide. Thanks for posting.

John, looking into the nature of mirrors in Japanese mythology can be productive, but for the present topic, perhaps looking at light or heaven or the sun as depicted in myth would lead to more answers.

The mirror came to Japan quite late, in relation to the formulation of native religious beliefs and practices and ideas. The Japanese, therefore, probably co-opted the mirror after adopting it and beginning domestic production.

What do you think?

[JLBadgley]

Wasn't the mirror a sacred object in Silla (and Baekje, Gaya, etc.?), indicating kingship? When added to the apparent nature of kings as priest-kings in Japan, combined with the distribution of tribute mirrors, what does that tell us, if anything, regarding their use?

I guess I had somewhat assumed that the mirrors came over from China and Korea as part of the tribute-trade going on in the area, initially, and were markers of wealth and status.

Unfortunately, most of the mythology that people point to (e.g. anything which references "samurai") is well past the point of early adoption, when continental values would have already muddied the waters regarding any "original" use. I think that the archaeological record is probably our best option for initial exploration of the topic, though correlation to myth, later, might help explain the archaeology.

-Josh

[nagaeyari]

[JLBadgley]

[shin no sen]

I am not sure what you mean by ".. looking into the nature of mirrors in Japanese mythology can be productive, but for the present topic, perhaps looking at light or heaven or the sun as depicted in myth would lead to more answers." I shall not get pedantic, but, most primitive religions are pantheistic and thereby the personification of natural forces in divine beings. The sun and thus the light and warmth it provides is the supreme driving force of nature. i am sure ancient man was well aware of this. This would include all illuminating bodies of the sky (the unobtainable), the sun, the moon and stars (including visible planetary bodies). Fire would be a related phenomenon and I think part of the pantheon. The reflected image or light would be a way to ask for divine intervention, perhaps originally special pools of water later polished stones and metals. Anyhow, not having seen evidence of shamanistic use of mirrors in Japan I was curious where the idea came from. I know it exists in mainland Asia, but, do not know the timeline. I found some pics of contemporary use of mirrors that illustrate your profs reasoning, which is why I consider the possibility not unreasonable. I just haven't seen mirrors with the wear patterns talked about. John








BTW, in these pics the reflective surface seems to be worn inwardly. John
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知恵は時間及びエネルギーである

[nagaeyari]

[JLBadgley]

The reflective surface pointing inwards really isn't that remarkable, I'd think--look at how we display them in museums. The back, where the real craftsmanship comes to light, is what most people find fascinating. If you just want a reflective disk, a flat disk will do just as well or better (unless, of course, you want one of the "magic" mirrors).

For religious purposes, I'm willing to bet most of these mirrors are used for their embodiment of the properties of the mirror--and those properties exist regardless of the direction the mirror faces.

-Josh

[nagaeyari]

Excellent point. The indwelt power of the mirrors was probably valued much more than any reflection on the physical level.

[AJBryant]

Y'know, I think y'all are going to like Himiko.

(Okay, the actual title is Japan in Five Ancient Chinese Chronicles, but we tend to call it "Himiko.")


Tony
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